- In the war in Bosnia, the Muslims killed Serbs and Croats, Croats killed Muslims and Serbs, Serbs killed Muslims and Croats. It was a civil war. No one was innocent there. No side was innocent. Only civilians were innocent who suffered the consequences of the horrors of war.

      Q: Did you read an article from the New York Times a week ago, in which it is said that you fired Chief of General Staff and Chief of the State Security. The journalist who wrote that said that you were losing power, that your power is being weakened and that you never give interviews, which I am sure is not true.

      - I gave a lot of interviews.

      Q: But what do you think about her analysis?

      - It is not good that she is not treating this country as all other countries in the world, the USA for example. How many Chiefs of General Staff changed in your country in the past 5 years. We changed one and you changed there - Powell, Shalikashvili and now Shelton. It is normal in any democratic country. Why should it be normal for Yugoslavia too?

      Q. I suppose what she said in her article, I am not sure, that you fired several high ranking officials at the same time - Chief of General Staff, Chief of the State Security. Allegedly, there was a disagreement between you and the Chief of General Staff. Is that true?

      - No, it was a regular change.

      Q: But, changes in both cases. They say that you disagreed over Kosovo?

      - I did not see any major disagreement with my associates over Kosovo.

      Q: But the former Chief of General Staff said that firing was illegal. He made a statement in the press. Do you remember?

      - Yes, I remember. Everyone who is fired has a right to be angry. It was a regular change and that is all. It cannot be said that it is illegal. It is my constitutional right as of any other president in the world.

      Q: What is your reply to the general position of this journalist, who said that in the beginning you had a big country, and now Bosnia and Croatia left. She says that your power is diminishing. Is she right?

      - She is absolutely not right.

      Q: When I was in Russia, the Russians told me that she was not right.

      - Of course, I was the President of Serbia and Serbia is the same as before. For the past year and a half I am President of Yugoslavia which was created in 1992. So, we did not change our country. She is not dealing with the facts. She only uses limited facts inappropriately. Let us go back to the explanation of the problem.
      First of all, it is clear that we do not have a problem with any national community, and there is 26 of them, except with a part of Albanian national community in Kosovo, those who are engaged in a separatist movement. The problem is the drive for secession of Kosovo from Serbia and its unification with Albania. That is why I said that the nature of this movement Nazi. Because of its publicly proclaimed goal - ethnically pure state. That cannot be a goal of any democracy. There is another historical continuity with what had happened in the Second World War. In that war, Mussolini, a fascist leader of Italy, created the so called Greater Albania and placed within this so called Greater Albania parts of Kosmet, a part of Macedonia and a part of Greece. Only in two years of the war, a part of Kosmet was part of Greater Albania. Never before in the history and never after that. So, the separatist movement in Kosmet is the continuation of Mussolini's ideas from the Second World War. This is yet another proof of the Nazi nature of this movement. Our approach is totally opposite. We believe that people should live together regardless of their national origin. And if anyone should understand that, you Americans should. You live in a country with many Americans of different origin. You live together. And no one is trying to separate a part of the USA and create from it an ethnically pure state.

      Q: But, I spoke to one American, who was in Kosovo, an American official. He said that in the past few years two different systems were created in Kosovo. In one system, Albanians send their children to their schools and the other system is for the Serbs. The conclusion is that those two groups inevitably have to collide. Do you think he was right?

      - He was not right.

      Q: Why?

      - There was some sort of a parallel system created by the separatist movement. But that was marginal. In most parts of Kosmet Albanian children go to schools normally. All the time. In other public institutions, for example, health-care institutions, hospitals and other institutions. Albanians are present there. I would like you to understand that the problem in Kosmet is the problem of a separatist movement, not of Albanians in general. We make a clear distinction between them and Albanians as a people, who are our citizens with all their rights, we do not want them to be second-rate citizens. We want them to be equal citizens of this country. That is the difference between them and the bandit groups who killed, raped, kidnapped and undertook all terrorist activities.

      Q: Do you think that you can reach an agreement with Rugova?

      - I think we can.

      Q: Have you ever talked to him?

      - I did. Once.

      Q: When?

      - In May. Then we started some kind of a dialogue.

      Q: And how was it?

      - The dialogue was stopped by terrorist attacks which were followed by anti-terrorist police activity, which were totally legal. You cannot imagine how many people were abducted, totally innocent people. For example, a miner, they took a miner to the woods. Many have not been heard from. Some have been killed.

      Q: OK. Let's say this is all true. But you still have to find a solution for Kosmet. Are you willing to accept the American plan?

      - I cannot talk about that plan in detail. But its major shortcoming is that the plan is favouring Albanians. Our approach is different. We think that no national community in Kosmet should be favoured. Each national community in Kosmet has to be equal with other national communities.
             Q: Let's say you are right. Are you willing to withdraw your police and stop being so aggressive in Kosovo?

      -Police is Kosmet has not been aggressive at all.

      Q: That's what the USA said. I do not know, I have never been in Kosmet.

      - Police in Kosmet protects the citizens of Kosmet. The victims of terrorists are Albanians, not only Serbs. Police protected citizens, not Serbs. It means, the Serbs, Albanians, Turks, Romanies, all citizens.

      Q: OK, let's suppose they are terrorists.

      - They are terrorists.

      Q: OK, but still there is a problem. You have your army there.

      - As any other country in its territory. Where is your army in your country?

      Q: But haven't you and Mr. Holbrooke agreed to keep only a limited number of soldiers?

      - Those soldiers that had been there before the onset of the conflict and crisis, and the police at the level before, which means 10,021 police officers. That is the situation in Kosmet. Since the agreement between me and Holbrooke there has been no action by the police except when they were directly attacked by terrorists. You have to understand that the terrorists are defeated. They are no longer a military factor in Kosmet.

      Q: Really?

      - But in a certain way they are a danger to security. Because of the simple fact that they may, in groups that they currently have, kill someone from ambush.

      Q: Do you think that Mr. Hills' approach leads to independence? Are you afraid of that?

      - I would not go that far. He has a good will to arrive at a good solution, but that is the subject of talks between the State delegation. Therefore they take one step at a time in good direction. I expect that the principle of equality of national communities be respected. This is the only way to calm the situation in Kosmet. How can Kosmet be calm if more than 600.000 residents should feel like second-rate citizens, and only Albanians should be granted rights. This is not possible. This is one of the things that are totally differently represented in the international press. I even saw in the international press that 90 % of Albanians live in Kosmet and 10 % of others.

      Q: That is true.

      -That is not true.

      Q: What is true?

      - I will tell you what is true. First of all, there are 240,000 Serbs and Montenegrins. More than 150,000 Muslims. More than 150,000 Romanies and Egyptians, Turkish national minority numbering 40-50 thousand. If we add the Albanians and their parties who participate in the joint Agreement, that is more than half of Kosmet population. We estimate that there is 800,000 Albanians in Kosmet. Hill will perhaps say 900,000. OK, we are not going to argue about that. What is our reply: to conduct a census under OSCE monitoring. What is more fair than to conduct a census, to establish accurate figures. Despite that, even if he were right about the 900 thousand figure, a the 600 figure is a fact, this is a 1:1.2 proportion not 1:1.9 which is a widely held view in the international community, which is not correct. All national communities have to be equal, that is the key for Kosmet. You should understand an essential fact. If national communities, like Turks for example, who are the smallest national community, between 40-50 thousand, are not equal with others, what is their position going to be. They have their papers, their radio and TV program, their schools in Turkish, etc. Why would they be second-rate citizens in an autonomous province ruled by Albanians? Joint agreement, reached by all national communities and ethnic groups and parties has a formula that there shall be an Assembly of Kosmet which will have two chambers: the chamber of citizens - one citizen, one vote, and the chamber of national communities in which each national community should be represented by its delegation which will be equal to others. Then, they can make all their decisions, respecting the interests of each national community in Kosmet. That is a fair formula, which is good and which guarantees equality of all living there. In such situation, the Serbs cannot be masters of Albanians. But if the Albanians do not agree, the decision cannot be made. But Albanians cannot be masters of Serbs or Turks or Muslims. All of them have an equal right to live there.

      Q: What about University?

      - What is the problem there?

      Q. People abroad say, and that is bad for your image, that you cracked down on University, on the press.

      - These are total fabrications. The changes of the Law on University included the abolition of self-management in the University, which we once had as a system. No more self-government, so there can be no self-government in the University either.

      Q: What do you mean there is no more self-government?

      - We used to have self-government as a system in former Yugoslavia. You don't know that. The system could no longer stay only in the University. The state universities financed by the Government, all buildings and their equipment belong to the State and all professors receive salaries from the State. Who should then appoint the members of the Executive Board. The Government, of course, and that is all there is to it.

      - I suppose that you talk about a reasonable solution.

      Q: No, whether you will from the political point of view be faced with resistance. If I were in New York, it would have not occurred to me at all. But here people sing songs about Kosovo. We in America cannot understand that. We think that you are acting irrationally. People talk about Kosovo all the time...

      - It is logical that you in America cannot understand everything in Serbia. We in Serbia do not understand everything in America.

      Q: No, I just wanted you to answer this question. Give me a straight answer. Would it be difficult, in case a reasonable solution is reached regarding Kosovo, would you be facing a lot of political resistance in your country, because emotions are running high regarding Kosovo.

      - No one in Serbia would accept, and that is totally true, that Kosovo be outside Serbia.

      Q: I understand that, but would you accept a reasonable deal?

      - Autonomy on the basis of equal treatment of all national communities.

      Q: Am I right that these are strong emotions that you will have to ...

      - I think that everybody will accept a just solution in Kosmet. The one that will equally protect the rights of all national communities. We do not have such kind of fascists here.

      Q: I didn't say they were fascists. I thought it was somewhat similar to Jerusalem, since this is an important city, emotionally.

      - Kosovo is important for us emotionally. As a part of this country, this is the heart of the country. We shall never give away Kosovo.

      Q: I understand that now.

      - Do you know that geographically, the region is called Kosovo and Metohija. Do you know what the word Metohija means? This is a Greek word and it means "church property", something that belongs to the church. So half of Kosmet is the land that belonged to the Serb Orthodox Church. For every Serb, Kosovo is the heart of Serbia. I have already told you that Weber made a list of 1800 churches in Kosmet of international heritage. We come from there. How can anyone say: let's take this part of Serbia and give it to the Albanians to play with it. It is out of the question.

      Q: If it is not like in Israel, we will never give Western Bank because Hebron is there, and it is very important for the Jews. But it is more important to reach a compromise and keep the city.

      - It is a big difference, because of historical reasons. Kosmet was never a part of Albania. We did not commit invasion on the Northern part of Albania. Albanians who went there over the mountains may freely stay there. That is all right, but they cannot take a part of territory with them. Take for example the situation in Texas. You have a huge Mexican population there. What would happen if they were to say that they want to take a part of Texas and unite it with Mexico because they are majority there. Would you allow that? It is not the question of human rights and question of democracy. This is a question of separatism, separatist movement. This is an entirely different thing. It has nothing to do with democracy, with human rights. It has to do with separatism and separatist movement, which uses terrorism as means to an end. That is why we had to respond to terrorism and stop it. Nothing else.

      Q: Is it the same as PKK in Turkey? This is a separatist Kurdish Movement.

      - You can see that in Northern Ireland, on Corsica, Basque in Spain. As opposed to Northern Ireland, we did not occupy northern Albania. Kosovo is a part of Serbia.

      Q: General Krstic who was recently arrested - is it true that you assisted in some way in his arrest and what is your reaction?

      - I think that it is very bad.

      Q: I heard that you were very forthcoming.

      - We have nothing to do with his arrest and we believe that it does not contribute to the normalisation in Bosnia and Herzegovina. He was an active general in RS and was arrested in the street by SFOR. This is not all right. Such secret indictments do not help the normalisation of the situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina, particularly in view of the fact that on any side -Serb, Muslim or Croatian you can find people who participated in the war, who commanded the troops, who were active and you could arrest them. If we were to apply the rules according to which Krstic was arrested, half of the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina should be arrested and sent to The Hague. But the war is over.

      Q: The State Department claims that you provide protection for 4-7 people - Serbs, who played a crucial role in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

      - That was not in Bosnia, that was in Croatia.

      Q: But they say that Mladic is here.

      - No, that is not true. Mladic is not here.

      - I would like to explain something to you. If the wars in Bosnia and Croatia are over, and if there is no one else to convict except the generals of the former JNA, who were in Croatia when something happened there, how can you simply say, OK, take these people. This is strictly prohibited by our Constitution. By the Constitution, not the law. We cannot extradite our citizens. I do not know where they are. I think that one of those three is not a citizen of Yugoslavia. Two are citizens of Yugoslavia. We never intended to arrest them and turn them over to the Tribunal. There has never been any evidence that they are guilty. Our Ministry of Justice asked the Tribunal to provide evidence on their alleged crimes. They did not get any evidence. If you want to talk about that, you have to have evidence. If there had been any evidence, they would have been arrested and tried here. We had trials for war crimes in Bosnia and Herzegovina. But our citizens were tried in our state courts, in Sabac, on the basis of our law. War crimes are crimes under our law.

      Q: I think that the idea of the Tribunal is to have them tried in the International Tribunal, not here. Do you have any interest in protecting them? Isn't that one of the conditions for the lifting of economic sanctions. What wouldn't you turn them in then?

      - We consider that this Tribunal is not treating Serbs equally as others, that is a matter of principle. They accused primarily Serbs for all that happened there. This was a part of a distorted picture of what happened in the former Yugoslavia. Dayton is the best proof that it is not true. We were accused of aggression in Bosnia and Herzegovina. After Dayton, it became clear that Yugoslavia did not commit aggression. That is confirmed by the creation of Republika Srpska in which Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina live, not from Yugoslavia. Even today they live in Republika Srpska, in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

      Q: You are talking about Mladic and Karadzic.

      - All of them, 1.2 million Serbs in Republika Srpska, in Bosnia and Herzegovina. They were in a civil war with the Muslims and Croats. That was not an invasion of Yugoslavia against Bosnia and Herzegovina.

      Q: But you assisted them, you armed them, right?

      - They were armed. All of them were armed in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Of course, we helped them. How can we not help our people?

      Q: But the fact is that the Bosnians were not armed, not in the beginning.

      - They were armed in the beginning and in the end. Everybody was armed in Bosnia and Herzegovina. How could they start the war if they were not armed?

      Q: But the Bosnia's were no match for the Serbs, in the beginning.

      - It is true that they were not so strong, the Serbs have always been good warriors in history.

      Q: But why didn't you call the fight off, but let it turn into thousands and thousands of victims?

      - This is something that you do not understand. Serbia did not take part in this war, so it had nothing to call off. All the time Serbia advocated peace.

      Q: Do you have any regrets?

      - Ever since the beginning we advocated a peaceful solution. Our approach is that they should alone find a solution that would equally protect the interests of all three peoples.

      Q: But you are a very powerful man. People say that you could have stopped it.

      - We did everything to stop it.

      Q: But you really could have stopped it.

      - I am a modest man, but I have to tell you: if Serbia was not so engaged and if I had not been so engaged in the search of a peaceful solution, Dayton wouldn't have been possible.

      Q: I am sure that's true.

      - That was done with great efforts on our side. And it is clear to anyone.

      Q: They are talking about an interim arrangement for Kosmet. They say that you had a very good relationship with Richard Holbrooke. Was that interim arrangement reached within 9 days because you and Richard Holbrooke have a good relationship or because you were afraid of NATO air strikes?

      - No, we were not afraid of NATO air strikes. We had to preserve the unity of the country at any cost. But we were for a peaceful solution all the time. Perhaps you do not know, but our State delegation went to Kosovo before Holbrooke came, 14 times waiting for Albanians to arrive and negotiations to start. They came once, and after that they were called to the USA for some talks. When they came back, terrorist activities intensified. So, they stopped the dialogue for reasons they never explained in Serbia. Perhaps their interlocutors in USA know those reasons.

      Q: Are you ready to continue dialogue with Mr. Holbrooke?

      - I believe that we have achieved a very important goal and the agreement to reach the problems peacefully. Now we need a dialogue between representatives of all national communities living in Kosmet. It is up to them to now define joint platform for common life. Nobody else can do it for them. They have to do it alone.

• Only civilians were innocent who suffered the consequences of the horrors of war
• We have market economy
• Laws equal for all
• We do not arrange our country in line with the interests of others